A wood floor project can start out as a bit of a mystery. Here are answers to some of the questions home owners find themselves asking.

Frequently Asked Questions

Dear Oak Floors of Greenbank,

The following enquiry for your company was entered by University of Toledo within HotFrog.com.

Message (April 9, 2008)

Dear Sirs,
We want to install 1000 sq. ft. of 4" wide White Oak, random length, flooring. Our house sits on 36 telephone poles, 3' above grade. The east/west 2 x 10 floor joists, 16" on center, rest on glue lams running north/south, spaced 4' on center. The 3/4" T&G OSB subfloor is glued and screwed (4" deck screws) to the joists with an 8" fastening schedule. The sub floor is insulated with 10" of Kraft faced fiberglass and 1" of Owens Corning Pink Board nailed to the floor joists on the edge closest to grade. This keeps critters, etc. out of the fiberglass. 

Will this system be okay for the above installation? 
Do we need to increase the flooring thickness with another layer of 1/2" OSB? Some installers say no, others say maybe. 
The underside of the house is almost always bone dry but sometimes has water puddles after a spring/late winter snow melt. We have thought of laying 6 mil polyethylene over the soil under the house and weighing it down with gravel. But would it be better to staple it to the bottom of the floor joists, in between the glue lam beams, thus providing a moisture barrier to anything coming up from the soil, three feet below?

We bought this house because of our asthmatic children. No mold and no mildew. 

Any reply will be truly and gratefully appreciated. We just cannot find consistent answers locally. Hope to hear from you.

Sincerely,

Randall R 

Many thanks, HotFrog Team.

April 25, 2008

Randall, over the years we have done a number of hardwood installations above pier post construction (I believe that is what you have described in your question). This can be tricky when the pier posts straddle water or are tall enough to be subjected to wave or wind action. We have many of those type structures here in the Pacific Northwest. A cross bridged or honeycombed arrangement within the superstructure is often called for to combat the aggressive motion from wave, tide or wind forces. We’ve been involved in a number of cantilevered structures as well that extent well up into the air or out over ridges or rock faces to maximize views. Once again, a webbed substructure or even a cribbed system may be needed to reduce the inevitable “on center” separations that are likely to occur over time without such an arrangement.

Many years ago I designed a free floating subfloor system consisting of two plywood layers with all over-lapping seams. The sections of plywood are glued and screwed to each other and allowed to ride freely over the substrate without fasteners of any sort. This was originally intended for structures with floating foundations and pier post construction over water. Our area boasts a number of houseboats and pier (over water) construction. It was an inexpensive solution to the inevitable lifting, separating and fracturing that would occur in hard surface flooring materials installed to platforms that did not employ a webbed superstructure. Often times even when cross bridging is utilized in pier over water construction, the pitch and yaw from wind, wave and tidal action eventually loosens the cross supports and the on center separation telegraphs through to the finished floor. 

Since my original floating subfloor design, I’ve improved and modified it to fit a variety of different needs from resilient floor systems (sports, dance, stages, etc.) to earthquake resistant high rises. In recent years I’ve tailored it to resolve many of the issues involved with solid hardwood installations over radiant in-floor heating systems and where transient water issues are highly suspect – to name just a few.

You mentioned you were going over OSB and asked if an additional layer of 1/2” OSB might be useful. Except for height considerations, I can’t think of an instance where an additional layer of a good sound and dry underlayment is not a good idea. I would also suggest you use a vapor barrier under your wood flooring. I recommend and sell a 3-ply product (2 layers of kraft paper sandwiching a layer of tar paper) called Aquabar “B”.

Just so you know, there are many varieties (qualities) of OSB panels – particularly in the USA. A number of reputable manufacturers of OSB panels recommend their plywood instead of their OSB products for subflooring under wood flooring. I have a more comprehensive document on OSB’s suitability as a subflooring or underlayment for wood flooring in my “Bollinger on Floors” column.

In my opinion, stapling 6-mil poly to the underside of your joists is a better idea than potentially creating a gravel-filled pond under your home on top of the plastic. I would make sure there is air circulation between the 6-mil and your insulation or subfloor or you may invite “sweat” from condensation.

You didn’t describe the size or shape of your home’s footprint. Without knowing the post depth and girth, soil composition, etc., your described raised area to evident weight would appear to be substantial enough to not anticipate significant pitch or yaw from exterior forces; however, I would expect it to flex more than a standard poured foundation residence.

When evaluating my opinions, advice and recommendations, it’s important to note that I am not an architect, builder, or engineer. The viewpoints I express come from my direct experience as a wood flooring installer, examiner and inspector over the past 35 plus years as opposed to what I have seen done, been told or have studied.

I hope this information will be helpful to you.

Don
Don Bollinger
don@woodfloorco.com
Wood Floor Products, Inc.
(206) 622-6996


April 3, 2008

(April 3, 2008)

Hi Don 

First off, I want to thank you for all the knowledge you've shared, and for all the great information you've provided to educate and set a higher standard in the flooring industry. The knowledge that I've gained from you has enabled me to yield better results, which of course means better built structures (I manage remodel projects in San Francisco, CA). It always amazes me the quality (specifically lack there of) of information that is thrown out on job sites by the "experts." Often times, their information is completely wrong, and if I didn't know better, I would assume these "experts" know what they're talking about. 

I am now experiencing a dilemma in my own home remodel, and I really need your opinion/advice (which I will of course be applying to all my jobs going forward). We are doing an extensive rebuild (it's so beyond the scope of remolding - it was a complete gut, including all new stucco, roof, expansion of the square footage, and a new hydronic radiant heat system over 3 1/4" wide, 3/4" solid strips of Australian Spotted Gum - Eucalyptus Maculata - flooring). At this point, the structure is sealed (windows, stucco installed, walls and ceilings mudded, taped and primered), and we are moving towards the finishing stages. 

On all my other jobs, without exception, the hardwood floor installations are done before the wet work is completed. By wet work I mean touch-ups to the sheet rock, painting (primer only done before floor installation, and sometimes tile work). The logic, of course, is that the walls will be pristine if done after the floor installation, since there's a high risk of "dinging" and other potential damage that can occur when the floor is being installed/finished. Thus, when the jobs are completed, everything looks great. 

However, now that I've researched how moisture affects wood flooring, with our house, I'm very concerned about the amount of moisture that will be introduced into the environment if our floors are installed **before** the wet work is finished (mainly mudding touch-up and painting; all tile work will be completed before the flooring comes in). I'm afraid the floors might cup from the moisture from the painting. I was planning on having the ceilings painted before the floors went in, thus it would eliminate about 30% of the moisture than if I painted everything after the floors were installed. 

But on the flip side, I'm afraid the flooring installers are going to ding up the walls, and when I do mudding fills and paint touch ups, it's going to look bad (especially since the walls will be sprayed and back-rolled, and whenever I've done touch ups on this type of painting, one can always see the touched up areas). 

What would you do in your own home? Once the walls are mudded and taped, every tradesperson wants to come in last, but what's the best for the flooring while allowing for the best looking walls? Dings are inevitable, and I would never expect the flooring installer (if they were to come in second to last, just before the baseboard installation) to not create the need for wall touch-ups. 

Help please! 

(I think this question/answer should be posted on your website, as I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting to know your opinion!). 

BTW, I love your article on staples versus cleats. 

Thank you so much, 

Jennifer :-) 

Jennifer Toy
Partner
San Francisco Design Company

(April 24, 2008

Jennifer, I apologize for taking so long responding to your questions. My taxi job keeps me running but it pays the bills. I oversee both a full-service wood flooring contracting business and a regional wholesale wood flooring distribution center. We specialize in offering our clients the finest quality lines of wood flooring, installation & finishing tools & supplies and other related products, all with an eco-friendly focus. We always seem to be too far ahead of ourselves and the market to make a big impact. For example, we’ve been selling reclaimed flooring for nearly 40 years now. What do know, suddenly it’s in vogue. Many of our items are made specifically for us in the USA and Europe to meet our stringent standards. I helped develop the formulas for some of them. Unfortunately, I’m afraid they’re too much like rocket science to most wood flooring contractors.

I would like to thank you for your kind words. Feed back is always helpful but it’s especially nice to hear that of a positive nature. As helpful as the world wide web has been getting information our to the masses, inaccurate or improper information can and often does get rapid dissemination and that can cause a lot of confusion – even among the “experts”.

One of my mentors once told me, “There’s no school like old school. The more things change, the more they remain the same. There is just no substitute for experience.” Basically what I got from that was that free advice is usually worth what you paid for it. If you really want to “know” how something works or doesn’t work, sooner or later you are going to have to “experience it”. Once you experience something, you may not know everything about it, but you sure know how YOU feel about it. The advice I give on wood flooring (although free) is based on my experience and that of other wood flooring professionals I know and trust. That doesn’t always make it accurate, but it is based on the REAL DEAL.

Let me start with cautioning you about the Australian Spotted Gum with your hydronic radiant system. Although a truly beautiful hardwood species, it tends to move around a lot in service. Radiant heating (particularly in-floor systems) accelerate the normal ingress and egress of moisture in wood. That said, you can do just about anything you want as long as you allow for it. 

I’ve helped design wood flooring systems that featured some of the most severely unstable wood species. We can even boast highly successful installations of solid wide plank (10+ inches) flooring below grade over hydronic radiant heating next to swimming, Jacuzzi’s or lap pools. It’s all in the design, installation and maintenance.

I too share you concerns about moisture on construction sites. The proper point for the introduction of wood flooring has been debated for many years and continues to be a sticky issue with many contractors (general and specialty, in particular flooring).

As you so aptly stated, a construction project can be a complex multifaceted mechanism seemingly with a life of its own. It’s like a wondrous melody interpreted and performed by a variety of different talented musicians, each one important – even indispensible – and each wanting and reaching for the last hurrah. The general contractor is like the conductor. There is an arrangement that must be followed, but ultimately it is up to each and every individual participant completing his or her own part of the score to make things come out exactly right – and they never do. So, the best the conductor can hope for is to take each part as it comes and take the necessary steps to complete the arrangement in the closest semblance of normalcy allowed by the participants and their actions during the interpretation of the piece.

In an ideal world, each and every craftsperson will do their job precisely as defined within the time and budget allotted and without impugning or adversely impacting other craftspeople or their work. As we all know, this just doesn’t happen. Often, when something goes wrong, the entire project can become a problem magnet – a black hole if you will. It can quickly become a runaway train gaining speed with every correction turning into an overcorrection. Soon, everything spins out of control and the project crashes. Then, with the dust settled, we find it really wasn’t that bad after all. Everyone bucks up and gets back together to finish the project, a little worse for wear but far wiser.

There is no panacea. Years ago, when I was a pup, we often began our installations of solid wood flooring when homes had only been stick framed. Often, there was little or no electricity to the structure. The roof was on and sometimes the outside walls were closed in but all the interior walls were bare open framing. Those were the days when many of us used hatchets to lay floors. The hammer side was used to hand nail boards and the hatchet side to cut off the ends or split rips to trim to the walls. Sometime later the lath and plaster went up. Talk about wet work. No worries about indoor pollution in those days. 

Today, we’re cocooning ourselves off from the great outdoors, re-breathing our own toxic gasses as well as that from construction materials, household furnishings, our clothes, mold and God knows what else. The point is, we have created a near vacuum of our living spaces all in the name of energy conservation and that spawns a whole multitude of other issues. Subtle changes in temperature and humidity now often result in visible measurable effects. 

The expedited drying techniques now often utilized coupled with the vice-like grip of urethane sealants and coatings hold today’s modern wood flooring to a higher standard. Old values for moisture changes and movement just don’t seam to translate to the super sensitivity observable in much of the wood flooring (particularly the prefinished varieties) seen on the market these days. 

Part of this is due to maintenance issues. The old oil and wax coats we used to use to seal and protect our wood floors have been replaced by no wax, easy-keep polymerized coatings that take a lick and a promise or a quick damp mopping to look shiny and new again – at lot like the plastics my generation once knew and loved.

These old sealers and finishes were exceptionally elastomeric and allowed the wood to breathe, naturally. As the wood moved, which it did a lot in those days, the sealer and finish moved with it. The idea was much like the original concept behind putting a tongue and groove in flooring. It allows the flooring to move and shift about as it picks up and gives off moisture, yet basically stay in place. 

Don’t get me wrong. The new fangled urethanes have been a god send, especially to us in the wood flooring business. Any hard surface (wood flooring or not) creates a much cleaner space (especially in a fairly air tight space) and comes as a refreshing change to wall-to-wall carpeting to those of us with allergies and lung issues. When folks pull up their carpets and have us refinish their floors underneath, they finally see how much dirt got through all that material. They get a real good look at what’s been hiding and breeding in their wall to wall carpeting all these years. It’s enough to gag a maggot. 

As far as damage to cabinets, walls, trim, paint or fixtures, you may want to take a long hard look at the subs you hire for wood flooring. Some are housebroken. Some, I’m sorry to say, are not. Of course one has to expect a certain amount of damaged from the installation, sanding and finishing of wood flooring. It’s a mix of rough and finish carpentry.

In all good conscience, I have to advise you (like our industry says), to get all the wet work done before introducing wood floors in a new or newly remodeled structure. Still, baring a fire, flood, or out-and-out thrashing of a structure, the greatest trauma most interior walls, woodwork or other portions of a home suffer is during the construction phase itself.

In most site finished wood flooring jobs, I normally recommend stocking the space to receive the flooring at least a few days in advance of installation. With radiant heating projects, I recommend several weeks or longer. The flooring should acclimate to the “normal lived-in” conditions of its future home until there is less than a 4% variance (2% with radiant heat) between the flooring to be installed and the subflooring or underlayment it is to go over. All wet work should be finished. All major tile and/or stone work should be done, the walls sheet rocked, taped and textured and at least the major base coats of paint applied and dried.

Sanding and finishing should be done during the final stages of construction. All the doors should be hung and the permanent lighting, heating/cooling and plumbing completed. Only things like trim, carpet, touch ups for nicks, and dings and final painting or touchup painting should be left undone.

I hope this addresses the issues you have.

Don
Don Bollinger
don@woodfloorco.com
Wood Floor Products, Inc.
(206) 622-6996

April 7, 2008
Hi!

This question is directed to Don Bollinger or anyone in your organization who can answer it. I'd like to know fairly quickly if possible.
I purchased your book 'Hardwood Floors: Laying, sanding and finishing" from Lee Valley in Canada. Well done, except I want to find out a bit of information I could not find in the book. Most of the strip and plank flooring in the book is pictured or drawn with channels milled into the underside of the wood, usually two or three, either in a V, semi-circle or straight cut. What purpose do they serve? Are they necessary or desirable? Do they permit air passage under the floor?
I ask because I want to turn some Douglas-fir mill off-cuts (outside of the tree, clear, quite nice really but all sap wood) into flooring by milling it myself to tongue-and-groove.
Thanks for your help.
Donna L.
California

Hi Donna. 

Thanks for the kind words.

These channels or grooves molded into the backs of most wood flooring were rarely done (traditionally) in soft woods (conifers and the like).
The purpose of these slots, at least as far as I've been told, serves several purposes. 

1) The channels or grooves act as a type of "relief for the unfinished bottom side of the flooring compared to the typically finished face side. This, I've been told over the years, will help to reduce the natural tendency of the flooring to curl upwards on the sides (what we often call cupping) as the flooring picks up moisture on the underside and swells more than the face side.

2) The channels or grooves act as a natural dead air space beneath the material to help equalize changes in vapor pressure above and below the flooring. Additionally, they can facilitate the flow of air beneath the finished floor and between the top and bottom layers of surface and subflooring as might become beneficial during the drying of water traumatized flooring.
3) These channels reduce the overall weight of the finished flooring and thereby slightly reduce the overall shipping and handling costs.

In the days when face nailed flooring was all the rage, it was too thin to cut grooves or channels in one side. Generally this type product was installed over beaded board (often see in the underside of the overhanging eves in many single family structures). This served to accomplish some of the same things.

I wouldn't worry too much about your fir flooring not have grooves or channels on the underside. Some times that type of flooring material was "center matched" (the tongues and grooves were exactly centered on the boards) so that the flooring could be installed top or bottom up. Also, Douglas Fir was commonly used on decks in years past and was exposed underneath.

Douglas Fir is not know for its stability (even quarter cut) and the sap portion of most lumber is the least stable of all. It’s my understanding that since the sap (the outermost portion of the living tree) was the last part of the plant to grow, it is the most likely to exhibit those traits as lumber (or flooring). It’s been my experience over the years that when comparing flooring boards cut from the same tree, those from the heart portion show substantially more stability in service than those boards cut from the typically lighter or whiter “sap” portions of the log.

Hope this helps.

Don
Don Bollinger
don@woodfloorco.com
Wood Floor Products, Inc.
(206) 622-6996

Hi Don (April 2, 2008) -

I have been looking at your website, and it looks like you are open to answering wood floor questions via email. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

I have purchased some Douglas Fir planks - 1" x 12"(actual .75 inch by 11.25 inch) (Surfaced 4 sides -S4S). The planks are 8 to 16ft lengths. I plan to install these in my log cabin in Chelan, Washington as a rustic-type wide plank floor, face-nailed with square edges.

The cabin has an 800 sq. ft. first floor, OSB subfloor over a crawl space, and a 450 sq. ft. loft.

Questions:

1) Should I use an underlayment between the OSB and the Douglas Fir planks. I have been researching on the internet, and have heard 3 different answers.
a) use red rosin paper
b) use felt paper
c) use nothing

2) Nails - 2 1/4 inch ring shank stainless steel? Three nails across the face spaced every 3 to 4ft?

3) Finish - I would like a penetrating type finish, possibly using Benite as a sealer prior to oil finish.
I would like to end up with, a natural as possible, look and feel to the wood, when done. What are your recommendations on finish options?

Thanks,

Wayne P.
Washington

Wayne, my biggest concerns regarding your proposed installation is the quality of the OSB you are using, the width and the cut of the plank you plan to install. There are many different qualities of OSB (particularly in the US). There are some standards that OSB or similar panels must meet here, but as a rule, at least from my experience, it’s overall suitability as a subfloor and/or underlayment under wood flooring depends entirely on its manufacturer. I have personally experienced both high and low extremes with OSB as a subflooring material for wood flooring installations.

In addition, I feel that 3/4-inch-thick plank flooring 8 inches or wider and certainly that 11 inches or wider should not be tongued and grooved as a few manufacturers do these days. Rather, I feel that nailed or screwed exceptionally wide plank flooring or decking be left square edged, as you plan to do, laminated to a similar species of multi-tiered plywood or at most, ship lapped. Wide planking has a long history of performing better in 6, 8 or even 10 quartered or thicker material. Even with quarter sawn material, considerable movement should be anticipated during its lifetime. Given the somewhat fairly arid and stable conditions it will likely encounter where you plan to install it, your floor has an excellent chance of providing a long and fruitful lifetime of service.

Douglas Fir (even quarter sawn stock) has never been considered a relatively stable species. Therefore, you should expect some obvious changes in its shape and appearance even with the modest shifts in relative humidity and consequential moisture content changes it will likely experience in the region where you plan to install it.

I almost always opt for a standard underlay of 3-ply kraft paper (two layers of kraft sandwiching a layer of tar paper) under nail down wood flooring. It helps as a vapor retarder, slip sheet and sound cushion. Two major exceptions to this are when gluing & nailing and when installing over in-floor radiant heat (due to the potential for tar odor).

Your nail type and spacing sounds sufficient, however, you wouldn’t go wrong with 3 to 4 nails per plank per joist. We sell a lot of stainless steel fasteners for flooring but primarily specify these for projects where high moisture levels are anticipated (e.g. yachts, marine or waterfront projects, Hawaiian or other island installations (that are not air conditioned), semi-exposed locations, etc.). If you expect considerable moisture contact over time it never hurts to use stainless steel fasteners. In such an event, I would suggest you provide additional spacing between the planks to allow for expansion. 

I strongly concur with your selection of a penetrating oil finish. The more “natural” elastomeric oils (e.g. linseed and isoparaffin (oil) and/or oil and wax) not only look more natural but also tend to perform better over time, especially on wide plank flooring.
Finally, I would suggest you acclimate your planking thoroughly to the prevailing relative humidity and moisture conditions at your sight before installing it. Most Douglas Fir grows in the more moist regions of the Pacific Northwest and generally is not dried lower than 10 to 12 percent moisture content. You will likely need a stable moisture content level of 6% or less in your flooring before you install it.

I hope this helps.

Don
Don Bollinger
don@woodfloorco.com
Wood Floor Products, Inc.
(206) 622-6996

         Methods for Installing Solid Wood Flooring Directly Over Radiant Heating

Don, I would appreciate your advice. I am installing 3" x 3/4 oak flooring directly over the top of Thermal Board radiant heat. There are some areas where nailing will be difficult due to the tube spacing. What type of adhesive do you recommend to supplement these areas for a quality installation? Also, do you recommend the use of any vapor barrier over the Thermal Board prior to the wood being laid directly over it? The home is in an area with wide outside temperature variances, with sub zero in the winter and 90's in the summer. It is also less than 1/2 mile from lake so humidity differences are also a consideration. Any advice or resources would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks
BOB 

Always check with the manufacturers of the products you're using for their recommendations and limitations regarding your proposed installation procedure. In this particular case that would include the Thermal Board manufacturer, the wood flooring manufacturer as well as the adhesive manufacturer (if you chose to use a mastic).
 
That said, I would agree with your assessment of combining a mastic and flooring cleats to install your wood floor. I would recommend full toweling Franklin's Titebond 811 Advantage with a 1/4" X 3/16" X 1/2" trowel. That should give you about 60 square feet of coverage per gallon of mastic.
 
As always, I recommend the use of flooring cleats rather than staples. Flooring cleats tend to allow solid wood flooring more freedom to expand and contract over time without unduly restraining or fully releasing the flooring at the fastener points.
 
I also recommend the use of a quarter sawn or rift sawn solid flooring material for added stability when going over in-floor radiant systems.

The use of a mastic substantially complicates the use of a vapor barrier. I rarely recommend vapor barriers over radiant heat anyway due to their susceptibility to odor off gassing from their tar or rubber content. As it turns out, the mastic I recommended is a waterproof polyurethane and as such provides excellent vapor inhibiting properties.

I almost always recommend in-floor radiant systems be turned on and left on 24/7 365. This is particularly important in you scenario. You don't have to pump out heat from the floor when the indoor temperature is above 60 degrees Fahrenheit, but I would recommend not allowing the floor to drop below 40 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit year round. That means you should leave the system up and running constantly.
 
I hope this helps answer your questions.

Don

Don Bollinger
don@woodfloorco.com
Wood Floor Products, Inc.
(206) 622-6996

What Causes Wood to Change Color and What Can be Done About it?


We had a maple floor put in and in just a year, the color has turned a “peachy” color. I know some color change will occur, but what finish should we have put on (we want to have them refinished) to keep them as bright and natural looking as possible?

Linda C.


Color change in wood flooring is a fact of life. Just like any other home furnishing from drapes or wall coverings to furniture or cabinets. The more direct the exposure to sunlight (even through low E glass) the greater or more pronounced the effect. Harsh southern exposure particularly if reflected (therefore magnified) off water or off a white reflective background will tend to intensify the overall effect. Over time, this will actually “bleach out” the colors in many types of materials including wood flooring. 

I installed new red oak flooring in my own home nearly 20 years ago for a book I was writing on hardwood floors. Sliding glass doors off our living room look due South out over a pond in our back yard. The effects of the sun were so pronounced over the years that they bleached the red oak almost white. During a recent remodel of our living room and kitchen we found we had sections of flooring that had undergone permanent sun damage. 

We removed an interior wall that had divided the two rooms creating one large open space. Our plan was to lace new flooring between the two existing sections of red oak to tie the rooms together. Instead we found we had to tear out large portions of over exposed flooring in both rooms in order to blend the new with the old. Areas once hidden by rugs or encased in the room’s shadows were still lively and colorful. Those places that had felt the direct rays of the sun didn’t fair so well. Spot sanding to corroborate our fears, we replaced major sections of sun-ravaged flooring previously undetected to better secrete our renovation.

It’s true that some finishes promote or allow more color change than others. Oil-based finishes (commonly called oil-modified urethanes or polyurethanes for short in the wood flooring industry) are some of the most yellowing. Their effect is the most pronounced on lighter or whiter species like maple or hickory. Waxes or products that contain wax can also give many floors an amber or yellowish hue especially over time or with moderate exposure to sunlight.

Acid-curing floor finishes, commonly called Swedish Finishes and now sometimes referred to as conversion varnishes (to sidestep increased environmental restrictions in some areas), often reacts with the tannins and resins and oils in many woods to “redden” them significantly. As artists can tell you, red is a “weak” color and fades easily to a tan or brown. This change can be quite pronounced with some species, particularly rosewoods and cherries. Cherries, for example tend to “redden” significantly when sealed with “Swedish Finish” only to darken significantly over time. 

If a stain or other type of colorant such as a dye or pigment application is utilized, these too will change in tone or color altering somewhat the overall appearance of the flooring. And of course the woods themselves will change color over time. Some will darken. Some will lighten. 

The hue or patina the floor eventually develops will depend on many factors. The species, cut, sealer, stain, dye, finish, exposure to various forms of lighting (not just sunlight) and exposure to the particles (especially heavy metal pollutants) in the air, all cause changes in color and sheen.

“Good” (which generally translates to expensive) water-borne finishes typically have strong UV inhibitors. Even without them, these products tend to leave woods lighter, clearer or more natural looking than do other commonly used products. A high quality water-based sealer will help most exotic woods retain their “recently finished” look and color much longer albeit less “bright” or as “deep” as what might be attained with certain oil-based coatings. 

When seeking the lightest most natural look with sugar or hard maple flooring cut from predominantly sap-selected lumber, you can’t beat a waterborne borne sealer/finish in my opinion. These are the best choice overall for a whiter or lighter more natural look with sugar or hard maple flooring cut from predominantly sap-selected lumber. If you’re seeking the lightest and least yellowing finish for your floor, a high quality water borne finish (like our Danish Finish or Danish ProSport Finish) would be my recommendation.

Hi, I would like to know if you could help me with my barn floor that has 1/8" to 1/2" gaps between each board. We turned the barn into our house and now have questions on how we can finish the floor. It is made of Douglas fir and is "ship lapped" together.
Any information that you might have would be most appreciated.
Sincerely,

Tim M

Since you're not likely to sand out all of the old gouges, stains, etc., I would suggest sealing it with a dark penetrating sealer after sanding it down with traditional floor sanding methods. The dark color will help hide residual stains. Finishing with a traditional oil modified finish (probably 2 coats) will have more chance of adhesion than many other types of finish given the likelihood of residual stains/oils/finishes inside gouges, scratches, between boards, etc., where the sanding cannot reach.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Do not fill the gaps between boards. Whatever you might use will just end up popping out later.

We have 4 children and 2 dogs. I want the hardest wood and the toughest finish I can find. I want a floor my dogs won’t scratch. What’s the best finish for my floor – one that will last?

There is no panacea. Even stainless steel will scratch. There is no hardest, toughest or best wood species or floor finish. Some exotic species like Jatoba and Ipe are several times harder than oak yet oak is an extremely hard and makes a very durable wood floor. Still, any wood you use regardless of hardness or density needs to be sealed and finished to protect it from foot traffic and spills and to make it easy to maintain. Oak is harder than the toughest sealers and finishes on the market.

So what’s the answer? There is no one answer for everyone. Some floor finishes are better than others for different floors for different reasons. See the comparisons on floor finishes to find one that suits your needs.

A good wood floor should be able to be refinished any number of times. If a solid wood floor is installed and maintained properly it should last at least as long as the building it’s contained within. My suggestion is to not worry about scratches and normal wear and tear. It is after all a floor. When the kids are grown, it may be time to have the floors resurfaced. That’s part of the normal maintenance of a wood floor.

I just had my floors refinished. How long should the new finish last and what can I do to help maintain my investment?

Everyone’s different just like every floor finish is different. I’ve seen floors we refinished well over 30 years ago that still look like we did them last week. On the other hand, I’ve seen floors we did less than a year ago that are badly worn at need attention desperately. It all depends on how many two and four legged critters run rampant on it and how well it’s maintained. If folks are allowed to tromp around in wet muddy waffle stompers with little rocks imbedded in their grooves and the floors are not cleaned of debris for days or weeks at a time – not long. But if folks remove their street shoes whenever they step on to the floor and the floor is dry mopped regularly and lightly damp mopped occasionally – almost indefinitely. Normal folks are somewhere in between these two extremes. That’s why it’s difficult to say exactly how long your new floor finish will last.

I would suggest that you occasionally have the floors screened and top coated if you had a Urethane or Swedish type finish applied. Usually this means after 3 to 5 years for most folks. If you had a wax type of product applied, you may want apply another coat of wax after 1 to 3 years. If you had a penetrating oil finish applied, you will want to clean and refresh the oil finish after 1 to 3 years or when it starts to look dull or water spotted.
Always follow the floor finish manufacturer’s recommended instructions for cleaning and refurbishing. Different types of finishes require different types of cleaners and maintenance procedures. Don’t believe all the advertisements on TV or in your local hardware or box store. Always look to a professional wood floor outlet for the best advice in looking after your floor.

Which is best, prefinished or site finishing wood flooring?

Site finished wood flooring is the granddaddy of all wood flooring. Is it best? Maybe, maybe not. It all depends on you and your circumstances. Site finished flooring allows you to site select the precise stain and finish color to match the lighting, colors, cabinets, whatever at your specific location. Your floor will be sanded or scraped to suit your specific desires. This usually calls for a smooth flat surface followed by a custom stain or finish with 2 to 4 coats of a professional grade floor finish applied in the exact sheen level you want. This doesn’t mean however that your floor is perfectly sealed against water spills (in your kitchen, bathroom or entry). Wood (solid or engineered) expands and contracts with changes in moisture from humidity or in liquid form. When these changes occur, your floor’s movement will open cracks between boards that allow spills access between boards. This is no different than prefinished wood products that are not sanded or sealed after they are installed.

One of the major differences most folks notice between site finished and prefinished wood flooring products is the slight bevel or “eased edge” down the length of each board and on some board ends. These eased edges are designed to help cushion the height or thickness variation between pieces. All prefinished products are sanded and finished flush and consistent to one another. Changes in humidity and moisture content from that at the time of milling will cause the various boards or pieces to expand or contract very slightly. This is most noticeable in solid ¾”-thick products. Since these products will not be sanded or finished after they are installed, a slight bevel helps soften the feel to the touch between boards.

On the other hand, installing a prefinished floor does away with the inevitable delays and mess associated with a site finished wood floor to say nothing of the worrisome curing times and lingering odors. Plus, if you choose a top quality prefinished product, you will rewarded with a state-of-the-art finish that is tougher than any site floor finish available.

The cost comparison between prefinished and site finish products are generally a push. You’ll pay more for the installation of a prefinished product and you’ll pay more for the product but you should save enough from not having to pay for the site finishing to more than make up for the difference. If you plan to install the floor yourself or if you live in an isolated area – a prefinished flooring is usually your best choice.

I’ve seen some really good buys (or what I think are really good buys) on wood flooring on the internet. What are some of the problems I need to watch out for if I decide to buy online?

Quality problems are the single biggest issue. If your flooring is poorly milled or somehow “different” than what they are used to installing your wood flooring contractor or builder may not install it or may charge you a lot more than they would have for something that is milled correctly or that they are familiar in handling. Once you’ve unboxed your flooring most companies will (justifiably) refuse to take it back – of those that are willing to take back products in the first place. Attempting to discover “problems” or “issues” with your flooring and then dealing with those issues long distance has been and continues to be the major drawback to buying wood flooring (or any expensive item) online and long distance.

The next biggest potential problem is getting what you want or what you expected. Choosing from a picture online or from a sample your online seller says is the same item you chose and what you expected comes in as problem #2 buying wood flooring online. Before you pick up or have your flooring delivered you have an excellent opportunity to examine exactly what you are about to get. That is the single biggest trump card a purchaser has when buying any item. When buying online, you surrender this card before you even have an opportunity to use it if you need it.

Finally, something that many people except the most savvy buyers overlook in their zeal to get the best deal is their selection and their powers of observation. When one is able to compare choices first hand, fewer mistakes are made than when they are compelled to choose from a distance. Very few professionals buy products (even ones with which they are very familiar) online unless they can get a very close picture and a very good deal. They want to inspect the product before they buy. If they are choosing one product over others, they want to compare each product with the others viewed first hand side by side. This still can’t be done online. Once they have a relationship fixed with a supplier, then they can buy confidently online.

We’re going to have in-floor radiant heat. We’ve been told that the only kind of wood floor we can have is a floating engineered product. Is that true? What’s the best kind of wood floor for over radiant heat?

You don’t have to have a floating floor or an engineered wood floor for going over radiant heat. Floating wood floors generally work okay over radiant heat but they’re not required. Engineered wood floors are generally more stable than solid wood floors. However, they are still affected by changes in humidity and are subject to the same laws of physics as solid wood floors. What many sellers engineered products don’t make clear when comparing solid products to engineered products is the relative fragile nature when flooded or when suffering a major spill or severe humidity shifts.

What is often not made clear when comparing engineered products to solid products is the characteristically fragile nature of engineered products compared to solid products in the presence of major moisture events such as a floods, significant spills/leaks or substantial humidity shifts. In most instances, solid products stand a significantly greater likelihood of salvage from such events than do engineered products under similar circumstances.

In-floor radiant systems tend to exacerbate the normal ingress and egress of moisture into and out of all woods including wood flooring. Major shifts in heat and moisture can bring about catastrophic changes in any wood adjacent to or over radiant systems. Therefore, minor changes in heat and moisture are always strongly recommended over time with such a system.

I always recommend a quarter sawn or a combination of quarter and rift cut for wood flooring utilized over radiant heat. This is because such cuts are substantially more stable with changes in moisture and therefore less likely to exhibit unwanted changes in appearance.

Narrow boards are more stable and less likely to move than wide boards with changes in moisture therefore I generally recommend boards 4 inches or less in width when going over radiant heat.

Choose a stable or normal wood species over an unstable or less stable product when selecting a wood species for over radiant heat.

Dark-colored woods or dark-colored stains generally appear better over time when used over radiant heated substrates.

Rustic floors or those with more character tend to appear better over radiant systems over time than clear or more uniform flooring products.

Antique or reclaimed products tend to perform better over radiant systems and floors cut from younger trees or newly lumbered products.

I recently got several quotes for refinishing my floors. One of the contractors indicated he would apply 3 coats of finish. The other contractors didn’t say anything. What do you recommend?

It depends on the type of finish they’re using and your budget. Some oil-modified urethanes often only require 2 coats to give plenty of film build to protect your floor. Penetrating oils can be okay with 1 to 2 coats if applied correctly while 5 or 6 coats will not be enough if applied poorly. Swedish or other urethane finishes like most water borne products should have 3 or more coats in my opinion. Many contractors apply only two coats to save money. They often don’t tell their prospective customers how many coats they will apply and let their cheaper bid get them the job. Always ask what you’ll be getting for any estimate and make your contractor give you a clear answer IN WRITING before you award them the contract.

Installing Parallel to Joists

July 2007
I've learned a lot for Don's videos but have one question. I have three bedrooms that I'm installing hardwood flooring. In two the flooring will run perpendicular to the joist and run the length of the room. In the third the floor would run the width of the room if I install perpendicular to the joists. I'm not sure I like the look of the third room with the flooring the opposite direction of the other two. The entry to all the rooms is very close etc.

My question is, can I install the flooring parallel to the joists and if so what needs to be done to ensure a solid floor install?

Thanks in advance.

Kurt S.
Ohio


Needing to install a wood floor parallel to the joists is a common problem for esthetic or mechanical reasons, particularly when remodeling. If the structure has been added on to a number of times or the design of the foundation walls and/or the configuration of the substructure causes an alternating or inconsistent joist bay arrangement it may become necessary to run the finished flooring with or parallel to the joists in at least in one area or two, and potentially the entire floor plan.

If, due to prior height changes or other considerations, you find the existing subfloor is covered by a thickness of a 1-1/4” or more of plywood, undamaged OSB, or solid decking material atop 16” on center or better joists – you’re good to go. If not, you may need to make other arrangements, or expect the expected – tell tale alternating peaks and valleys (on center) between runs of flooring over time. Those boards installed directly over joists and running the same direction will have a tendency to exhibit obvious gaps down their lengths to adjacent boards on either side, while boards between joists will seem more closely coupled. While there is generally little to be concerned with structurally, the on center alternating gaping attracts the eye in a predictably irritating fashion. 

In new construction you can allow for an additional 1/2" or more underlayment in those areas where you know you will need to run the flooring parallel to the joists or where the finished flooring will be totally depended on the subflooring and underlayment for its soundness. When remodeling, new foundation walls will often cause joist bays to run opposite that of the prevailing ones. When possible, plan for an additional ½” or ¾” underlayment in the new area. Better yet, install an additional ½’ or thicker underlayment over both the new and the existing subflooring. For the best results, plan this additional underlayment to bridge all the seams between the new and the existing foundation lines. It’s important to remember that any time an underlayment or other overlay be laid over an existing system, that the new overlay be set diagonal or perpendicular to the direction of the prevailing panels or seams. Also make sure that the new panels overlap the seams of the existing subflooring and that no two seams land directly over one another. Insuring a distance of 6” or more between parallel seams in the overlaying panels to that in the underlying ones will provide the greatest strength to the system.

If height considerations prevent the use of an additional underlayment, bridging between joists can usually provide sufficient strength to help shore up the inevitable swale in the subflooring overtime between joists. Two by fours or two by sixes (12" to 16" on center) attached at alternating positions to the joists and flush to the underside of the subflooring will generally provide enough support for most 3/4"-thick subflooring to act as a base for installing nail down solid 3/4" hardwood flooring.

If you plan to use a 1/2" or thinner material (especially if it is a square edged product or is to be glued instead of nailed), I strongly recommend the use of a 1/2" (or thicker) 5-ply (or greater) plywood atop the existing subfloor.

Removing A Marker Mark on Hardwood Floor

April 5, 2007
Is there a website that you know of on how to care for hard wood floors?

One of my children accidentally marked on the floor with a marker and I do not know how to get it off....

Thank you for your help,

Diana G.
San Antonio, Texas

Diana, the first thing you need to do is determine what type of floor finish you have on your floor. The next, is to determine what type of marker was used (e.g. permanent marker, water base marker, Crayola, wax base marker, etc.), then call a local wood flooring contractor near you or email us back and we will try to help you.

If you think you have a urethane floor finish on your floor, you may want to try something on your own. I might suggest using alcohol. You could use a clear drinking alcohol like vodka as most drinking alcohols are typically diluted over 50%. You could also use rubbing alcohol or denatured alcohol. 

Another product to try is isoparaffin or white spirits. It sounds exotic but it can usually be found at hardware stores as liquid paraffin, the fuel for clear candles (the decorative type you can burn inside your home).

THIS IS IMPORTANT!!! Put the cleaners on a rag, not directly on the floor. Rub the spot lightly with the solvent until the mark is removed. Don't use alcohol or isoparaffin if you have a wax finish. This could remove the wax or cause it to turn white.

I suggest you first try the solvent you plan to use in a closet or other out-of-the-way place to see what effect it has on your floor finish. If it attacks or softens your floor finish, or causes it to change color, don't use it.

Hope this helps.

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